The cashless society - Further points

I've been discussing the coming cashless society over the past three weeks.

See here, here and here.

Some interesting points have been raised below the line:

Budvar -
I think the main problem with the implementation of this is when (not if) the arse falls out of national currencies.
Be it hyperinflation or bank failures, you think people will trust banks with 100% of their cash? Not bleedin likely.
There's also a little thing called shall we say "Vices". Hands up all those who would have no objection to the "Barclaycard statement showing £x paid to "Madam Silvias sniffing coke off the buttocks of small boys emporium"? You get my drift.

I don't think people will go along with this as easy as they think they will. Tokens of whatever kind will spring up in lieu to camouflage said payments.

I think we can all agree that a financial collapse of some form is likely in the coming years. The trouble is, most of the drones don't expect it.

Anyone who is not financially independent or self employed, does have to trust the banks with 100% of their money. We get paid a weekly / monthly salary and it has to go into a bank account. What we do with it after that is up to us, but it still needs to go through the banks.

Couple the ignorance of the masses with the points we've discussed, ease of use, denormalisation of cash etc, and you have a populace that is still happy to use banks for the little money they have, will be perfectly happy to do all their transactions electronically and simply demand that something must be one if the system collapses.

Those demands would come in the form of violence, rioting and looting should we be faced with a complete financial collapse.

As to the rest of us, as Budvar points out, we will slowly shift to other mediums of exchange. We however, are not the immediate target. Once the system is in place, the drones will be climbing over themselves to report people who refuse to comply.

As to 'vices', that's simply another means at the governments disposal. One they convince the drones that only drug dealers and perverts use cash, what do you think the drones will do, demand their right to take drugs and visit brothels? Will they bollocks. Some will slowly move to other mediums of exchange, others will simply get their kicks from reporting drug users and pervs.

Pavlovs Cat -
I hate PAYE. and of course nothing can go wrong.
I recived a coding notice on Jan 4th that I was now 0T back dated to the start of the tax year. I immediately challenged this as I have not suddenly become a millionaire or an MP.
HMRC :"Oh yes there appears to have been an error, your tax code should remain 571L we'll send out a new notice."
ME: "Who made the mistake"
HMRC: "I'm afraid it's impossible to tell "


However the correction did not reach my company who blindly applied 0T to this months wages without asking any questions or calling me. the computer took all the years supposed underpaid tax in one lump leaving me with £200 for February.

This kind of thing is already far too common. When you rely completely on what the computer tells you, you fail to see obvious errors that are before your eyes.

Companies, banks etc, face such stiff penalties for not doing as they are told by HMRC, they will do exactly as they are told, even when it's bollocks. HMRC does not care what damage their mistakes cause to you and I, they are well above the law and behave accordingly.

More electronic transactions mean more reliance on computers and more mistakes. Not for them, for us.

Anon -
Cashless society enables the gov to ration cigarettes, boze, salt, sugar and anything else it feels like. Once your allocated amounts have been used up in any one month, paymnets will not be authorised or different rates of tax (higher, obviously) will apply.

Tin foil hattery? On the contrary, it's bob on. The government and it's fake charity hangers on would have a wet dream over those possibilities.

The smokers licence has already been proposed. Once the cashless society is in play, no smokers licences will be necessary, no unpopular rationing will need to be approved through public consultation, all they will have to do is program your card accordingly.

Trying to buy more than you weekly allowance of fags or unhealthy food? Denied!

the government would love to have this ability and they will use it just as soon as they are able.

Dan H -
The main problem with an entirely electronic system is not how it would work, but how it would fail. Purely electronic cash falls over on its arse if any one of the enabling systems isn't present, so it would require internet links to be up, servers to be working, and electrical power to be steady, constant and not interrupted. In a country where the electrical grid is being supplied by coal-fired and nuclear generation, this isn't a problem. When you are using intermittent, unreliable wind generation, you are setting yourself up for a bigtime fail.

The other main problem with this is that Government computerisation projects in Britain have customarily been characterised by usefulness levels on the chocolate teapot scale, and reliability levels ranging from "bugger all" right down to "actively harmful", with a tiny and insignificant minority actually being useful and usable.

Given that this is the case, electronic money as administered by the UK government would be welcomed with open arms by every script-kiddie, fraudster, con-artist and malicious foreign government in the entire world as a way to plunder, loot, disrupt and cripple the UK in short order.

Correct. The government cannot organise an IT project in a brewery. The trouble is, you and I know that, but do they?

Every time the government comes up with a new project it turns out ungainly, impractical and far more costly that first predicted. Never the less they continue on blindly, just as they will with the cashless society. It's not their money they're spending and not themselves they're inconveniencing.

Aside from that, electronic crap fails all the time. What do the drones do about it? Nothing. They may moan, they may complain. What they won't do is demand a return to cash when it's far too late and they're far too brainwashed.

Mud In The Blood-
We can see it coming, but what can we do about it? How do we fight this? The lazy majority don't care they just want their X factor etc. They want to be told what to do, say and think. If you see the world as we do you'll be labelled a nutter and derided, if there are enough of us and we make a stand we might convert a few or we may become 'domestic terrorists', because if you ain't with them then you must be against them. The future has little place for individuals.

We can't fight it. It's too big and there are not enough of us.
We will certainly try, just like we try with everything else from the smoking ban to fuel tax. The government is too big and powerful, and what they want happens.
We did get a temporary reprieve with ID cards, however the cashless society needs the ID card system to function, so they will be back, just done a little smarter this time. It may even be the Tories that bring them in. After all, John Major was the first to propose them.

No, we can't fight it but we can side step it. Other means will be open to those of us who don't believe the government should have the power it does.

We will still live in the daylight and still openly transact with the cashless society, but when it suits us, when we want to remain private we will find other ways to conduct business.

It's our knowledge  of what is to come that fill help us. The drones will drift into it without realising what has happened.

Macheath-
Some years ago, I received a letter from my bank enclosing a form already completed (by hand) with my full personal details - mother's maiden name and all. The letter instructed me to sign in the marked space and return the form immediately.

On closer inspection, it turned out to be an application for a combined cheque guarantee/cashpoint card to replace the two separate cards I used - a change I had firmly rejected when it was offered on several previous visits to the bank.

Irritated by this presumption on the part of bank staff, I went in to make a complaint, only to be told that the manager responsible was not available; she had just been promoted to a larger branch, I was eventually told, 'because of her excellent results in getting customers to take up the new cards'.

A less discerning customer, confronted with a letter marked 'Urgent' and demanding a signature on a pre-completed form, might well obediently sign and return it without due consideration.

I appreciate that I'm jumping the gun a little with the question of 'how', but it's worth remembering that those tasked with actually implementing the system will have more of an eye on advancing their own careers than on the sinister purpose behind what they are doing.

(My compliments, by the way, on handling a matter of vital importance so efficiently.)

A simple point made here. People are human and systems are open to abuse.

More systems do not make us safer, they cause more abuse. My cash in my back pocket cannot be abused by others with their own agendas. My cash in my bank account can be pinched by a variety of electronic means. As I stated in the original discussion. if the bank believes my money is safe because of systems they put in place and those systems are subsequently abused, pin number hacking for example, the bank are more likely to blame my carelessness than their systems.

Nisakiman-
I use cash wherever possible. I also maintain five bank accounts in three different countries, and use all of them. I like to make it difficult for them...

We must all do everything we can to make life as hard as possible for them. We may not be able to fight it but we may be able to delay it long enough for common sense to take hold again in the western world. Maybe...

In the meantime, keep voting UKIP.

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